When everyone speaks

The French-language phenominon TLMEP shows the power of conversation

On Sunday night, the Quebecois talk show Toute le monde en parle had a remarkable segment. It featured two men — vice president of the the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs (CIJA) Richard Marceau shared the stage with spokesperson of Quebec City’s grande mosquée, where six men were murdered while in prayer, Boufeldja Benabdallah. The two were there to talk about rising antisemitism and Islamophobia.

There’s nothing like Toute le monde en parle in English Canada. There’s nothing even close to it. It’s one of the most watched shows in Canada and its viewership blows any English-language political show out of the water. It’s popular because its, as we say in French, populaire — a true Vox Pop where anyone might get the chance to be on the air, as long as they’re noteworthy in some way.

Like a US talk show, guests then stay on stage for other segments and sometimes intervene. It was the perfect format to discuss Israel’s war on Hamas and something that simply does not exist in English Canada.

During the first half of the interview, the two men answered questions related to rising hate crimes. Marceau talked about the shooting attack at several Montreal Jewish schools as being particularly unacceptable as they targeted locations where children gather. Benabdallah talked about how society must loudly and clearly condemn any attack on institutions like schools or places of worship.

But as the interview progresses, the two are naturally forced to talk politics. The host Guy Lepage asks: “M. Benabdallah, you say that denonoucing violence is important but that the most important is to give a message of peace. How and why?” Benabdallah says that peace is critical — that if we came across two people fighting, we would never allow them to just keep fighting each other. We would intervene. We have to stop the aggression. What we want is for our government, a friend of Israel, to please ask them to respect a cease fire. Then they can work towards peace.

Marceau says that the images that are coming out of Gaza and the images that came out on October 8 (in that order), are hard to stomach. But, that a cease fire before the hostages are returned or before Hamas is disarmed and dismantled will simply mean that another Hamas attack will happen. A cease fire is not the way to stop the war, he says.

Now, what I like about this exchange is that we finally have a mainstream platform for these two ideas to be put against one another: is peace at any cost just? Is a cease fire giving in to Hamas? Is there even a single hostage alive considering the state of Gaza right now? It’s an extremely rare look at the so-called two sides of this issue in mainstream Canadian television; through presenting diverging sides and debating through them.

Catherine Dorion, who is on the show to talk about her new book, jumps in and says that recall: Israel refused to give up the hostages for a cease fire, didn’t he? Marceau says no — and he says this as someone who is not “in the Bibi Netenyahu fanclub” — Netenyahu said that there can be no cease fire before the hostages are released. Which kind of answers “yes” to Dorion.

Marceau then runs through the list of the crimes alleged of Hamas — burning entire families, raping women, and so on. Dorion jumps in — “But why don’t you mention the 4000 children who have been killed by Israel?” Marceau says that any loss of a life is the loss of an entire universe, and on this Muslims and Jews agree. But, Marceau insists — unless Hamas is defeated, the threat of violence will always be present. Hamas wants a permenant war between Israelis and Palestinians, he says citing the New York Times. All people on the planet have the right to live in dignity and freedom and that their national aspirations are respected. But unfortunately he says, Hamas does not want this.

Benabdallah turns to Marceau to say that he’s surprised to hear Marceau say this. At some point, shouldn’t Israel take the first action? Every day their bombs kill hundreds of people per day. When will it stop? All of the protests today are calling for Israel to stop. There have been 10,000 people killed — and then Lepage jumps in and cuts Benabdallah off.

When it comes back to him, Benabdallah says that these sides need to get to the same table and they need to find a path to peace. Marceau shakes his head in disagreement. Benabdallah’s passion rises — take Lebanon he says. His wife is from southern Lebanon, in a place where 90% of people have evacuated, including his mother in law. If a bomb dropped there when we last visted, we’d be killed. These aggressions have to stop. Palestinians must find peace just like Israelis must find peace. But soldiers need to be pulled out of the territory and bombs need to stop falling. During this, Marceau is shifting in his seat uncomfortably and Benabdallah touches his arm in a gesture of pure humanity; no but really listen to what I’m saying his hand says. Maybe it’s premature to talk about peace because as the bombs still drop, it’s impossible to have a conversation.

Marceau isn’t given the chance to respond though Lepage asks both one final question: what do you want people to take away from this conversation? Marceau starts — he wants people to take away the facts. Yes, Benabdallah is right to say the aggression needs to end, but we know who started this. Hateful acts —- and he names three — must stop. They’re poison to the social climate. Lepage jumps in and says that this includes a Montreal cardiologist who made Islamophobic comments online. Marceau says that also needs to be condemned, though the big difference is that he was never invited to speak at a rally, unlike noted hateful guy Adil Charkaoui in Montreal.

Benabdallah says “Hate cannot be our final word, it has to be peace.”

Another guest jumps in to say that she heard something that has stayed with her — if someone enters a school armed with a gun — do we destroy the school and everyone inside?

If only we had a platform like this in English Canada — where people could have enough time to jump off their speaking notes and talk freely; passionately. Benabdallah is a friend of mine and we have had deep and difficult debates. But when given the room, they have always resolved. Isn’t that what we’re missing right now? There is just no room.